1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:17,170 this is need to know real talk about the reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon from australia 2 00:00:17,170 --> 00:00:24,090 ross coltart from the us bryce zabel welcome and hello we are so energized that you have 3 00:00:24,090 --> 00:00:29,119 chosen to join us for our third episode of need to know with cold heart and zabel and 4 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:34,590 i am of course the last part of that equation zabel i'm here in los angeles right now where 5 00:00:34,590 --> 00:00:38,880 we've had a little rain of late a little more tomorrow and uh that's good because we have 6 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:44,410 a drought uh the way we throw the logistics together for one of these things is ross is 7 00:00:44,410 --> 00:00:52,379 actually 19 hours in my future so how's that um and it's about three o'clock in the afternoon 8 00:00:52,379 --> 00:00:58,160 my time here on the west coast so i do the math this way three o'clock my time plus 12 9 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:04,510 hours would be 3 am his time plus 7 hours which would make it 10 a.m which means i get 10 00:01:04,510 --> 00:01:10,299 to say good day mate how are you doing ross hey bryce how are you mate look we just say 11 00:01:10,299 --> 00:01:16,750 down here in australia down under we're always ahead of you yanks seriously is that a pejorative 12 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:22,100 should we should we call you yanks it's an affectionate term isn't it um i don't know 13 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:26,689 that's a really good question because i i don't know the answer but i would assume you 14 00:01:26,689 --> 00:01:31,720 you would you could be sneaking that past me right now but i take it as a as a good 15 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:37,470 good one i like being a yank it's a good thing so right now bryce this is a very auspicious 16 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:44,870 moment because there is a little pile of white paper sitting in the inbox on president joe 17 00:01:44,870 --> 00:01:50,780 biden's desk and he hasn't got his fountain pen on it yet but we're hoping he soon will 18 00:01:50,780 --> 00:01:56,689 maybe maybe as he tiptoes out of the carol singing in the foyer of the white house he'll 19 00:01:56,689 --> 00:02:04,490 just sit down in his desk and he'll put his pin to the paper and sign the ndaa the national 20 00:02:04,490 --> 00:02:12,410 defense appropriations act which will essentially put into law what we call the gillibrand amendment 21 00:02:12,410 --> 00:02:19,060 a momentous moment in ufology now let's face it joe biden has other things clearly on his 22 00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:25,240 mind these days and he hasn't been very out front on the uap issue the one time of recent 23 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,390 time that he was even asked about it he kind of made a joke about it but there it is in 24 00:02:29,390 --> 00:02:35,020 black and white in that ndaa and and he can't really get around it it's been passed by the 25 00:02:35,020 --> 00:02:40,330 house of representatives it's been passed by the u.s senate all he has to do is sign 26 00:02:40,330 --> 00:02:46,019 it to be law and for him to not sign it over uap would only make the subject even bigger 27 00:02:46,019 --> 00:02:52,060 so i think the odds are he's signing just to reiterate for our listeners and viewers 28 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:59,269 this is big this is momentous because what it's doing is putting into black and white 29 00:02:59,269 --> 00:03:06,019 law a requirement that the pentagon the military the intelligence establishment of the united 30 00:03:06,019 --> 00:03:15,209 states make regular reports to the congress classified and unclassified without holding 31 00:03:15,209 --> 00:03:24,650 back on what they know about the uap issue unidentified aerial phenomena ufos it is gigantic 32 00:03:24,650 --> 00:03:32,689 don't you agree oh it's it's huge and in fact as we near the end of 2021 i would have not 33 00:03:32,689 --> 00:03:38,659 too long ago said well the big story of 2021 of course is that there was a ufo report issued 34 00:03:38,659 --> 00:03:42,980 in june and now i think it's the second story as we talked about in our last episode the 35 00:03:42,980 --> 00:03:50,659 big story uh this year is this ndaa because it gives some teeth to this uh investigation 36 00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:59,320 it tells them to do it and and it gives money to the process but and i say but my friend 37 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:05,310 i like to look at history and forgive me i'm going to be the glum pessimistic one in our 38 00:04:05,310 --> 00:04:11,400 journalistic collaboration i've looked at the history of project blue book which was 39 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:19,699 the last ufo investigation by the u.s air force in the 1960s which concluded in 1969 40 00:04:19,699 --> 00:04:26,530 literally on the dot of 1970 and essentially the whole thing as we now know was a whitewash 41 00:04:26,530 --> 00:04:32,490 and it replaced it placed a requirement on the air force to report and to give the public 42 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:39,009 an accounting of what they knew about the ufo phenomenon the reality is the public was 43 00:04:39,009 --> 00:04:43,419 snowed how do we know my friends how do we know it's not going to happen again i have 44 00:04:43,419 --> 00:04:47,710 to beg to differ a little bit i think you're right i mean there's always good reason to 45 00:04:47,710 --> 00:04:53,430 be skeptical and to challenge the conventional wisdom here's one difference project blue 46 00:04:53,430 --> 00:04:58,180 book was an air force project so in other words it was the air force uh investigating 47 00:04:58,180 --> 00:05:04,450 ufos back then of its own volition it decided to do it and then it decided not to do it 48 00:05:04,450 --> 00:05:09,950 this is a little different this is congress the u.s congress and one of the only bipartisan 49 00:05:09,950 --> 00:05:14,830 acts uh one of the few there were a couple other this year but one of the few bipartisan 50 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:22,050 acts of of 2021 uh coming together to say let's do this the sponsor of the nba amendment 51 00:05:22,050 --> 00:05:28,810 is senator kirsten gillibrand of new york state a democrat and senator marco rubio of 52 00:05:28,810 --> 00:05:34,160 florida a republican and there are republicans and democrats on both sides of the aisle coming 53 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:40,130 together to do it so it has the force of law uh and let's face it the last time congress 54 00:05:40,130 --> 00:05:46,380 told uh the uh office of the director of national intelligence and the defense department to 55 00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:52,551 get something done about uap which was a year ago uh this this month they did it and they 56 00:05:52,551 --> 00:05:57,139 issued it by the actual date that they were supposed to and even though it wasn't the 57 00:05:57,139 --> 00:06:03,200 absolute greatest document that anybody's ever read on the topic it basically confirmed 58 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:10,169 the reality of uap so i i i think we have to hold their feet to the fire but i have 59 00:06:10,169 --> 00:06:15,880 no doubt that the kind of talk that's coming from gillibrand and rubio and and other senators 60 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:22,250 like mitt romney and and others is is going to do exactly that can i give you one hint 61 00:06:22,250 --> 00:06:28,170 of optimism from down under my friend i i've been talking occasionally to congressional 62 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:33,099 staffers working for some of these congress people that have been given secret briefings 63 00:06:33,099 --> 00:06:39,540 before the congress in very secret hearings where they've been shown videos they've been 64 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:47,410 briefed on the contents of these very controversial u.s navy videos they're excited yes they they're 65 00:06:47,410 --> 00:06:54,901 they're really keen for this to see the light of day and one of the joys of our trade is 66 00:06:54,901 --> 00:07:04,440 washington leaks right you know the the belt the beltway is a a swamp but it's also a swamp 67 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,560 where people just cannot keep their mouths shut they cannot and i thought of one other 68 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,940 thing we should mention here it's the whole stigma issue the stigma surrounding ufos and 69 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:21,060 now uap has has always been a part of it uh but it was at a peak during the project blue 70 00:07:21,060 --> 00:07:26,639 book time so people in congress were not coming out and saying let's talk about ufos that 71 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:31,669 was very very rare because they were concerned they'd be laughed at the difference is these 72 00:07:31,669 --> 00:07:35,850 days uh there are people in congress who talk about it and they don't get voted out of congress 73 00:07:35,850 --> 00:07:41,710 they don't get censored for talking about ufos or uap and many of them uh certainly 74 00:07:41,710 --> 00:07:50,639 the language from gillibrand and rubio has been listen we want to know the answers to 75 00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:55,879 this situation because we're a little concerned about it and and underlying that appears to 76 00:07:55,879 --> 00:08:00,770 be the essence of the argument that we know we've been had information withheld because 77 00:08:00,770 --> 00:08:05,590 we're members of congress and the briefings really didn't get started until uh a year 78 00:08:05,590 --> 00:08:11,370 or so ago so there's a few things in that in that and by the way i thought australians 79 00:08:11,370 --> 00:08:15,389 were supposed to be the optimist and as the american i'm supposed to be the pessimist 80 00:08:15,389 --> 00:08:21,220 i don't know i'm just balancing mate i'm just balancing so look let me i i still you know 81 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:26,659 i i sit in bed at night and read this legislation this just amendment because it's just mind-blowing 82 00:08:26,659 --> 00:08:32,459 you know you've got the words unidentified aerial phenomena in writing in a piece of 83 00:08:32,459 --> 00:08:39,750 legislation before the us congress mind-blowing but the key point i think you want to talk 84 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:49,220 about most is that it requires that not later than october the 31st 2022 and annually until 85 00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:57,770 october 31st 2026 the director of national intelligence in consultation with the secretary 86 00:08:57,770 --> 00:09:05,430 of defense shall submit to the appropriate congressional committees a report on unidentified 87 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:11,480 aerial phenomena now my friend explain to our audience why is that date significant 88 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,779 it is uh it's very significant i want to point out one thing while uh ross has a book out 89 00:09:16,779 --> 00:09:22,240 in plain sight i do most of my writing and investigating on a publication called trail 90 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,560 of the saucers over at media and one of the things that i just wrote about they got a 91 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:32,110 lot of traction this week is to take that date october 31st uh 2022 which by the way 92 00:09:32,110 --> 00:09:38,060 is halloween here i again i don't is halloween a thing in uh australia do you guys do the 93 00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:43,540 truth we are increasingly being americanized my wife and i we thought a resistance for 94 00:09:43,540 --> 00:09:48,220 a while that we you know we didn't want to give lollies to strange little kids and then 95 00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:51,770 after a while it broke our hearts because these beautiful little angels were turning 96 00:09:51,770 --> 00:09:56,940 up on our doorstep with buckets demanding lollies and so uh when we lived in sydney 97 00:09:56,940 --> 00:10:02,350 i don't anymore but um when we lived in sydney we started giving lollies probably in the 98 00:10:02,350 --> 00:10:08,180 last few years it's one of the one of the nicer american habits that we i live for the 99 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:12,730 day ross when i can show up in your doorstep with a bucket and demand lollies from you 100 00:10:12,730 --> 00:10:19,329 that that will make me happy anyway so october 31st which is halloween here um is the date 101 00:10:19,329 --> 00:10:23,870 that that report is to be turned in and what do we know from the last time there was a 102 00:10:23,870 --> 00:10:30,240 report demanded uh 180 days were given the the con the office of the director of national 103 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,519 intelligence to do a preliminary report when this previous legislation was passed last 104 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:42,370 december i got my calendar out 180 days later was june 25th of 2021 and that's exactly when 105 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:47,160 that report came out what do i take from that uh the office of the director of national 106 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,209 intelligence takes its obligation seriously and actually did deliver a report and they 107 00:10:52,209 --> 00:10:56,440 waited until the last minute they followed the letter of the law what does that mean 108 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:03,089 for me it means that take that to the bank october 31st of 2022 we are going to have 109 00:11:03,089 --> 00:11:09,019 some kind of report on our desks for you to look over it uh there will be a public version 110 00:11:09,019 --> 00:11:13,810 uh which will be the non-classified version as happened with the preliminary report to 111 00:11:13,810 --> 00:11:20,360 also be a classified version now here's where it gets interesting to me we're going to be 112 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,709 in the middle of what we call the midterm elections here in the united states um this 113 00:11:24,709 --> 00:11:30,870 is where every single member 435 of them of the house of representatives are up for election 114 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:37,130 and one-third of the senators 34 of them this year are up for re-election or election and 115 00:11:37,130 --> 00:11:41,970 all uh something like 39 of this the governors around the country in other words this is 116 00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:47,310 a big election guess what the date of that election is november the 8th of 2022 so you 117 00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:53,850 don't need to get out my calendar and count 180 days in the future count eight eight days 118 00:11:53,850 --> 00:12:00,100 after the uap new report that is mandated by this legislation comes out we are going 119 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:08,450 to have an election that means in that final crash toward electoral rejection or confirmation 120 00:12:08,450 --> 00:12:13,339 for either party they're going to have uap out there in the media being talked about 121 00:12:13,339 --> 00:12:17,560 depending on what's in that report at least a few of them are going to be asked about 122 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:23,370 it for sure you can say gillibrand and rubio and and romney and a bunch of others are going 123 00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:28,220 to be asked about it but there's going to be town halls both virtual and physical happening 124 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:35,399 across this country uh during that final week uap well not exactly going to be on the ballot 125 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:40,040 is going to be on people's minds so i think it's a big deal and do you think people will 126 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,529 ask questions are we overcoming the stigma bryce i'm not so sure we are i mean i'm quite 127 00:12:45,529 --> 00:12:50,930 depressed at the lack of mainstream media coverage for this ndia i think you'd be crazy 128 00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:56,399 not to be a little depressed about that it's true just to give you a historical reference 129 00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:03,440 back in 1976 president jimmy carter who was not president ran against gerald ford who 130 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,560 was president jimmy carter had seen a ufo and gerald ford in the 60s had called for 131 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:13,790 congressional investigations into ufos and they had three debates and not once in any 132 00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:17,910 of the three debates that had ever come up not once did any reporter ever ask them on 133 00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:22,660 the campaign trail about it and the same thing prevailed in 1980 when carter ran against 134 00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:28,440 reagan and reagan had seen a ufo so the the the journalists do not have a good record 135 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:34,690 on this that's absolutely true and in 2020 i was pretty shocked to see that there were 136 00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:39,720 dozens and dozens of debates it seemed like of the democratic candidates and then there 137 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,310 were the trump and biden debates and it never came up again so the difference this year 138 00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:49,060 if there's going next year rather if there's going to be a difference literally comes down 139 00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:56,459 to uh the fact that there'll be a breaking news thing on their desks i think also what 140 00:13:56,459 --> 00:14:01,649 we have to put into context here as well as whatever the report's going to say in october 141 00:14:01,649 --> 00:14:07,209 next year there's going to be quite a momentous series of revelations i suspect that's what 142 00:14:07,209 --> 00:14:14,670 my antenna are telling me you've got the uap x expedition hinting or not hinting they're 143 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:19,981 stating quite clearly that they've had a major breakthrough in their research and there are 144 00:14:19,981 --> 00:14:26,550 a bunch of scientists ex-military excellentel guys who with i think some private silicon 145 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:32,839 valley funding went out with highly sophisticated cameras uh infrared cameras high speed cameras 146 00:14:32,839 --> 00:14:39,860 and filmed off places like catarrh catalina island where for example the uss nimitz sighting 147 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:47,079 took place in 2004 and they're not saying what they've got but by golly they dropped 148 00:14:47,079 --> 00:14:51,519 a real clanger in one of their recent announcements where they're basically indicating that they've 149 00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:57,270 they've found some they've found something that's suggestive of intelligent non-human 150 00:14:57,270 --> 00:15:03,279 life well okay so there's that and that's we can't dismiss that there is that i think 151 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:08,779 there's one other uh thing at play which is if you've had a preliminary report and now 152 00:15:08,779 --> 00:15:13,360 you're going to have an annual report you sort of have to build on what came before 153 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,690 well what came before in a preliminary report that some people wanted to dismiss as a nothing 154 00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:24,220 burger i never did i thought that there were key items of value in the seven pages of writing 155 00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:30,940 in that report and this is what that i'm talking now about the june of 2021 report it confirmed 156 00:15:30,940 --> 00:15:37,769 that ufos basically or uap is basically real physical uh doing maneuvers we can't do it 157 00:15:37,769 --> 00:15:43,649 suggested that they were not made in america and it pretty much stated that they weren't 158 00:15:43,649 --> 00:15:48,459 made by advertis adversaries like china or russia so if you do the math what what what 159 00:15:48,459 --> 00:15:53,440 is left something a little more exotic so my question is if you've already put that 160 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,019 on the table you're going to have to sort of add a little more meat to those bones and 161 00:15:58,019 --> 00:16:01,920 you're going to potentially have to extend that argument because now you've had over 162 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:10,149 a year and a half to continue your investigation so there might be a shocker or two probably 163 00:16:10,149 --> 00:16:15,420 because of the very thing you're talking about which is not all of us are sitting around 164 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:21,680 waiting for the government to do the job that they've sort of refused to do uh for 75 years 165 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,740 which is to be honest and level with us and we're doing it ourselves and we're pushing 166 00:16:26,740 --> 00:16:31,680 the government instead of the government being completely in control i think we should talk 167 00:16:31,680 --> 00:17:05,130 about 2022 a little bit more but i think we should come to the end of this segment and 168 00:17:05,130 --> 00:17:06,130 take a break [Music] 169 00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:07,130 [Music] 170 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:10,039 hello there and welcome back to need to know i'm ross coulthart from the land down under 171 00:17:10,039 --> 00:17:16,900 and i'm joined by my journalistic collaborator and good mate bryce zabel in los angeles dusty 172 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:22,289 los angeles what is it about los angeles price that you need a car to go everywhere uh well 173 00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:27,079 they built it that way since the 60s they've been in 50s they've been building freeways 174 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,210 and uh they they they really didn't give us a lot of alternatives it's funny i was just 175 00:17:31,210 --> 00:17:35,770 talking with people about that the other day and uh because young people have a harder 176 00:17:35,770 --> 00:17:40,980 time understanding that they go we got to get out of these cars and and so if you look 177 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:46,429 around there are more and more uh mass transit opportunities starting to exert themselves 178 00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:51,860 but it's not there yet i had an opportunity a few years ago to interview elon musk of 179 00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:55,710 spacex and tesla one of the things one of the things he was talking about back then 180 00:17:55,710 --> 00:18:02,280 was the boring company the idea of drilling tunnels under los angeles and i guess i'm 181 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,910 going to use that as a completely stupid segue into what i really want to talk about which 182 00:18:06,910 --> 00:18:13,190 is the fact that we are at the moment in an era where we're talking about things that 183 00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:18,440 used to sound like science fiction tunnels on los angeles high speed tunnels under los 184 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:24,490 angeles reusable space vehicles courtesy of elon musk but also we're talking about the 185 00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:30,799 words uap and legislation before the us congress and i guess what i wanted to use this segment 186 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:35,990 to talk about my friend is what i have a be in my bonnet about i've been looking at the 187 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:40,830 wonderful response that we've had from our listeners and viewers we've had i think just 188 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:48,299 over 10 000 responses viewers and listeners and many many responses coming in on our mail 189 00:18:48,299 --> 00:18:57,000 our email system which is correct me if i'm wrong mate it's contact at need to know dot 190 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,289 today right so today so so literally that's you can write us at contact need to know today 191 00:19:02,289 --> 00:19:10,360 or if people want to just see the site first they can go to need to know today now i'm 192 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:16,980 struck by the fact that in the literally tens of thousands of emails that i've received 193 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:23,020 since my book was published and since my film was broadcast and in the other emails that 194 00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:28,460 have come in since we started this need to know podcast i'm struck by the fact that there 195 00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:35,970 is a voice out there of people who've had sightings experiences that gets very frustrated 196 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:42,260 with people like you and me because they they send in their reports they often send in videos 197 00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:47,940 photographs very descriptive accounts of what they've seen and i don't know about you but 198 00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:52,840 i'm not detracting from what these people say they saw i'm not saying they're fabricators 199 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,510 or liars or anything like that and this goes for people as well with these alleged abduction 200 00:19:57,510 --> 00:20:04,630 experiences or my lab military abduction experiences i just don't know what to make of it and more 201 00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:12,060 importantly because it's not data or data data data it it really doesn't help me or 202 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:19,530 you in investigating the issue the reason why the uss nimitz sightings kicked off the 203 00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:24,179 response that they've had which has resulted i think in this legislation this generate 204 00:20:24,179 --> 00:20:30,850 legislation is because they were utterly compelling they were they were verified by multiple sensor 205 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:37,520 systems multiple witnesses and there are only a few of those kind of instances in the world 206 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:42,850 really there's the phoenix incident in america there's uh the westall incident uh here in 207 00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:49,940 australia in 1966 there's the rua zimbabwe story of the little school kids that saw a 208 00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:56,080 craft allegedly land in the school grounds and i'm vexed mate because i just don't know 209 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:03,950 how to deal with as an investigator i don't know how to deal with sightings reports should 210 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:10,940 we even be engaging with them are they useful data i think they're well they are useful 211 00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:17,250 whether they are data is is another matter our friend lou elizondo has exhibited a certain 212 00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:22,860 frustration for the far end of that the abduction phenomenon because he says what am i to do 213 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:27,380 with this i i don't know whether that's it's not data i can't i can't do anything with 214 00:21:27,380 --> 00:21:32,429 it so i get the frustration i would say this i think we have to factor it all in because 215 00:21:32,429 --> 00:21:39,490 if if the sensor data if you will from 2000 on has gotten so good that it's compelled 216 00:21:39,490 --> 00:21:45,040 us to be writing legislation about it then we are admitting to ourselves now that some 217 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:51,610 of these uap are authentic they're not made by us and we need to take a deeper look and 218 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:56,940 if that's the case then we have to also assume some of these sightings are exactly what they 219 00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:02,240 look like we don't know why they're happening uh but but they they could be clear i will 220 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,160 say uh the abduction thing is a whole different thing and and as kind of a uh hello to the 221 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:15,010 third part of this uh we're going to be talking about abductions a little bit more um i think 222 00:22:15,010 --> 00:22:19,840 the biggest problem we have is is you got to take a lot of things into consideration 223 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,159 a lot of things seem to either conflict with each other or just do what you stated which 224 00:22:25,159 --> 00:22:29,789 is for someone who's looking for a data driven approach they make it very difficult but i 225 00:22:29,789 --> 00:22:34,940 have to tell you um i come at this from two to two different points of view i am a journalist 226 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:39,900 of course by training and i i certainly come from that point of view and and quite often 227 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:44,770 uh you have witnesses to a crime that can put somebody in jail and they don't have data 228 00:22:44,770 --> 00:22:49,920 surrounding that they but they go to jail anyway because there's good witnesses um and 229 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,240 i also look at it as a dramatist because i've had that opportunity and and certainly the 230 00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:00,669 drama behind abductions and sightings is unquestionable so i would just wrap this up by saying in 231 00:23:00,669 --> 00:23:05,730 answer to your question about sightings in general some sightings are better than others 232 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:13,590 um some are more equal than others a multiple sighting uh with clarity that is sustained 233 00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:19,860 that has some other kind of uh like a photographic piece or something or just many many people 234 00:23:19,860 --> 00:23:25,470 seeing it that's good now do we have data for example on the phoenix lights case from 235 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:31,159 the late 90s in uh in phoenix we don't have a lot of data but we have a lot of witnesses 236 00:23:31,159 --> 00:23:36,590 are all these witnesses crazy i don't think so so that's it's it's a little confusing 237 00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:42,230 and and for our for our listener out there listen uh we we we hear you loud and clear 238 00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:46,929 this is confusing stuff so i don't want to discourage people from sending us sightings 239 00:23:46,929 --> 00:23:53,900 data sightings reports but what i want to hold a discussion about is what can we do 240 00:23:53,900 --> 00:24:00,370 what information can we solicit and collect in order to develop a more clear understanding 241 00:24:00,370 --> 00:24:05,230 of this phenomenon sure okay the there's a couple that come to mind i'm really interested 242 00:24:05,230 --> 00:24:11,460 in robert hastings wonderful book ufos and nukes and when i introduced sorry when i interviewed 243 00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:17,280 robert a year or so ago i was really struck by the fact that he told me about sightings 244 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:27,150 reports of incidents that occurred over almost every single icbm silo and almost every single 245 00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:32,610 nuclear facility around the united states and i was thinking nobody's ever really done 246 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:37,970 i love those new york times interactive reports where you can scroll over a map and see what's 247 00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:44,000 happened where and they do a lot of stuff like you can drill down to a suburb and you 248 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,940 can actually see the number of assaults or murders in your suburb and politicians hate 249 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:53,370 it because it's basically you know putting them on the spot in australia they've tried 250 00:24:53,370 --> 00:24:58,440 to gag the release of that kind of information one of the things i got into once was asking 251 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:04,500 hospitals for their mortality and morbidity rates for cardiac surgery and i wanted to 252 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:10,190 do a chart that showed who was the the best cardiac surgeon in terms of mortality outcomes 253 00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:16,691 in australia and oh my god the medical establishment fought me like um i think in australia that 254 00:25:16,691 --> 00:25:21,530 we would use the expression blue ass flies they really gave us that they they gave us 255 00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:27,350 a hard time and basically i was resisted at every step but eventually on their own bat 256 00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:33,020 because they realized it was inevitable they started releasing this data so i'm just wondering 257 00:25:33,020 --> 00:25:40,529 isn't there a data source already available that we just need to start engaging with intelligently 258 00:25:40,529 --> 00:25:46,220 there's so much information there's a a vast plethora of material in project blue book 259 00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:52,080 that i don't think has ever been digitized correct and wouldn't it be great if rather 260 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:58,110 than having all these disparate dasher sets in places like neufon or new fork or whichever 261 00:25:58,110 --> 00:26:03,430 organization you're talking about imagine if you could merge all those data sets and 262 00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:10,909 so there was one central digitized location where somebody can literally type in i don't 263 00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:16,920 know greensburg connecticut if there is such a place and and basically say this is what's 264 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:23,279 happened in your area and i think for a lot of people the subject of uaps is personal 265 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:28,429 they want to know have they been sightings in my area and it's a great way of initiating 266 00:26:28,429 --> 00:26:34,330 public interest in the subject matter um just an idea but i put it out there i'd love to 267 00:26:34,330 --> 00:26:40,059 hear what data sets the public think we should be looking at we well we should be looking 268 00:26:40,059 --> 00:26:44,920 at those data sets two two thoughts here uh the historical ones are going to be harder 269 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,669 to come by they do exist in blue book we have to figure out how to co code them together 270 00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:54,180 and people are already working on that there are people i'm aware of who are pouring over 271 00:26:54,180 --> 00:27:01,760 that um the other thing is we're clearly establishing our own better data sets now going forward 272 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:07,190 since the age of sensors let's just call that from the 2000 on we're getting better data 273 00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:11,929 and we are basically having congress tell the department of defense and the intelligence 274 00:27:11,929 --> 00:27:16,710 agencies start sharing your data folks and start reporting it back to us so that's all 275 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:24,630 good uh because we want to also speak though to to people who may see things and want to 276 00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:31,679 participate in this here this will seem very silly on its on its face but i don't think 277 00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:38,549 it is lots of people see things and the irony is when they're videoing anything uh the camera 278 00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:42,490 is shaking and they're not following it really well but the other thing they're doing is 279 00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:48,059 they're saying the f word every five seconds and they just repeat that to everyone around 280 00:27:48,059 --> 00:27:52,440 them and i just want to encourage people not that there's anything wrong with being astonished 281 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,580 and resorting to profanity in the face of the mysterious but the best thing people could 282 00:27:57,580 --> 00:28:03,040 do if they see something and they're recording something is to talk about the weather talk 283 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,769 about where they are talk about what direction they're looking talk about who they're with 284 00:28:08,769 --> 00:28:15,880 talk about their contact information put it all onto that piece of video and in real time 285 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,760 so that it represents better data don't don't have people have to fill it in through interviews 286 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:28,649 done after the fact and so i'm tired of looking at videos that are just strings of expletives 287 00:28:28,649 --> 00:28:35,830 because that is not helping as much as simply telling us i was looking south southwest it 288 00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:40,640 was this day it was this hour that's what i want to know yeah i know and the other thing 289 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,350 i've realized is in australia is you americans don't swear or out of profanities anywhere 290 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:46,480 near as much as we do 291 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:55,039 i've been told off for swearing on broad on broadcasts podcasts and radio shows in your 292 00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:59,230 country and i've i've had to learn to not be a potty mouse as we say here in australia 293 00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:06,480 i've i've had to restrain myself look the um i i think what's going to what's going 294 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:13,830 to eventually become clear in the next few months i i'm getting inklings my friend from 295 00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:20,059 journalist friends of mine that there's going to begin an intense investigation of the subject 296 00:29:20,059 --> 00:29:25,419 matter by mainstream media and one of the things that i think will be a breakthrough 297 00:29:25,419 --> 00:29:31,179 in this is one of the key requirements in the gila brand amendment is that there be 298 00:29:31,179 --> 00:29:37,519 consultation with america's allies and we are one of your closest allies here in australia 299 00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:43,299 and there's also the uk and canada and new zealand and i've received messages from people 300 00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:49,590 all over the world who including people in governments who are listening to our show 301 00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:54,679 they're reading my book they're watching the film and they want to engage the thing that 302 00:29:54,679 --> 00:30:01,630 really the thing that really strikes me about all of this is there is a kind of a weird 303 00:30:01,630 --> 00:30:07,799 view out there in mainstream media that i think is still the dominant view that okay 304 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:13,809 maybe ufos aren't quite as much of a subject for ridicule as they used to be but you know 305 00:30:13,809 --> 00:30:17,299 where do we go with this let's just wait and see let's see whether this all fizzles out 306 00:30:17,299 --> 00:30:22,539 in congress you know um there's been stuff like this before nothing's ever come of it 307 00:30:22,539 --> 00:30:31,549 i i think we're on the cusp of a big change here i'm getting serious journals really good 308 00:30:31,549 --> 00:30:39,570 journalists good investigators and also i had the very first call the other day from 309 00:30:39,570 --> 00:30:47,710 somebody in a government department communications advisory role he was a journo friend of mine 310 00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:54,940 and he he said roscoe i see you've written a book on ufos we're starting to get calls 311 00:30:54,940 --> 00:31:01,970 in the minister's office about this what should i read and i said well of course you gotta 312 00:31:01,970 --> 00:31:08,440 you've gotta read in plain sight i i recommended your uh i reckon that's a sign of the business 313 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,669 i recommended you're on the trail of the sources but i think there's a change coming and i 314 00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:20,850 think 2022 is the beginning you know a couple of thoughts uh first of all i love how you 315 00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:25,669 call journalists journals in uh australia and i'm going to start doing that too but 316 00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:29,919 every time i've sort of put it in writing uh somebody corrects me as if it's a typo 317 00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:37,340 so that'll take some change um listen um yes we need a lot of change uh there's uh nbc 318 00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:41,470 is the one of the big three networks here if you will big four networks here in the 319 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:46,440 united states and they have a journalist named gotti schwartz whoever i loved i loved his 320 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,890 piece by the way well hang on a second gotti is a is a good guy and he seems to understand 321 00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:56,110 it and one of the things we want to do with need to know is encourage good journalism 322 00:31:56,110 --> 00:32:01,639 hold bad journalism's feet to the fire and and and sort of encourage a coming together 323 00:32:01,639 --> 00:32:06,840 on this to journalistically do what we know reporters can do so i'm watching gotti schwartz 324 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,990 this is like three days ago uh he is talking to the folks on the today show i believe and 325 00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:19,730 he's talking about the ndaa and what does the piece have in it the freaking x-files 326 00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:26,880 again with the x-files music folks are we not past this are we not past anchors making 327 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:34,019 wink wink titter titter little green men jokes and playing x-files music now i have to believe 328 00:32:34,019 --> 00:32:40,080 in gotti schwartz left to his own devices would never do that so clearly i think some 329 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,620 producers said we got some great x-files clips stick those in there i'm tired of looking 330 00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:50,990 at them those same clips then got put in a tweet that uh kirsten gillibrand amplified 331 00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:58,370 it's just terrible but i will say this i call it cosmic watergate uh is what we're up against 332 00:32:58,370 --> 00:33:03,340 um that's not a term that i've innovated by myself stanton friedman of course famously 333 00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:08,590 called it that and he was right he was i i look at it slightly differently than the way 334 00:33:08,590 --> 00:33:15,549 stanton used it for me watergate was a time when uh journalism was breaking big stories 335 00:33:15,549 --> 00:33:22,659 and people were literally responding to those stories by trying to do the work themselves 336 00:33:22,659 --> 00:33:29,000 we are in for a time of competition you and i hope to we'll i assume we will break a story 337 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,440 or two ourselves and i know you'll do so independently and i know other journalists will that's what's 338 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:40,130 going to do it once other journalists get brought into the fight baby watch out then 339 00:33:40,130 --> 00:33:47,630 the the fur is going to fly as they say okay so let's pause for now and come back with 340 00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:54,520 our predictions for 2022 in just a moment on need to know 341 00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:17,339 [Music] 342 00:34:17,339 --> 00:34:25,589 welcome back to need to know the uap phenomenon podcast with cult art ross coulthart from 343 00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:32,540 australia and bryce zabel from los angeles california so here we are bryce we're in the 344 00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:38,460 run-up to christmas and what we're doing is bringing out polishing our crystal balls and 345 00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:46,750 trying to get an idea of what we think might happen in 2022 and i'm struck by the fact 346 00:34:46,750 --> 00:34:53,780 that you are one of the resident experts on an incident that took place 60 years ago the 347 00:34:53,780 --> 00:35:00,680 betty and barney hill story tell me more oh well there's some breaking news we can break 348 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:06,200 here today which i'll get to in just a second yeah i do i kind of have an obsession about 349 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,060 the betty and barney case and for a couple of reasons um as a journalist i've always 350 00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:15,950 found it to be a profoundly interesting case because there were things to actually study 351 00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:21,990 about it it received a a lot of attention and as a dramatist i wrote betty and barney 352 00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:29,079 for example into the pilot of the nbc dark skies our drama that i created uh do you believe 353 00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:34,680 them are they telling the truth well now you're cutting to the the chase uh pretty fast my 354 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:40,560 friend um let me put it this way it's a very good case and i'll answer that question in 355 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:47,240 a second just to bring our listener and listeners up to speed here betty and barney uh an interracial 356 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:52,950 couple in 1961 coming back through the white mountains of new hampshire from a delayed 357 00:35:52,950 --> 00:36:02,380 honeymoon experienced what they thought was a close encounter with 358 00:36:02,380 --> 00:36:10,960 a ufo 359 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:18,839 a story of first okay uh first to be abducted first to basically uh submit to uh past life 360 00:36:18,839 --> 00:36:27,079 regret uh regressive hypnotism uh which allowed them to tell their story um and and so this 361 00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:30,680 is what is so compelling about their story now i don't want to talk all about betty and 362 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,050 barney i could go on for hours about it i do think it's a great case and i'll tell you 363 00:36:35,050 --> 00:36:40,109 why it's a great case even though it doesn't have the all the data that you would want 364 00:36:40,109 --> 00:36:45,160 around it because back when betty and barney claimed this happened to them uh nobody else 365 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,599 was claiming it so in other words they weren't reading the newspapers they weren't watching 366 00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:54,740 an episode of ancient aliens or anything of the sort and then saying hey let's make something 367 00:36:54,740 --> 00:36:59,810 up about it so they were the first people also to describe the grays uh so they're just 368 00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:05,990 a lot of firsts that they put into their story so just explain to our audience some of our 369 00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:12,109 listeners may not know what a grey is what do you mean a grey well greys uh as you point 370 00:37:12,109 --> 00:37:18,240 out in your own book uh are sort of the they win the popularity contest of supposed alien 371 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:24,260 life forms visiting the earth these are the the ones often described by not only abductees 372 00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:32,540 but but but just you know in the in the literature uh short three to four to five feet uh grayish 373 00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:40,460 uh large heads and of course those big black deep almond eyes so that's what they they 374 00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:44,599 described several kinds but they did also describe the grays and that seems to be the 375 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:48,800 popular choice these days one thing i wanted to ask you about the betty and bunny hill 376 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,829 cases was there ever any independent verification of anything that they said i'm not saying 377 00:37:54,829 --> 00:38:00,220 it's all nonsense but right i've got to be the skeptic here you know what kind of investigation 378 00:38:00,220 --> 00:38:05,220 was done to try to independently corroborate what they see well that is where we come in 379 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:09,910 ross with our little piece of breaking news um you're an investigative reporter you've 380 00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:15,619 won awards for it in my previous lifetime i started as the newsperson here in los angeles 381 00:38:15,619 --> 00:38:21,250 won a few awards myself for investigative reporting and uh i think one of the things 382 00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:26,330 we're going to be doing on this uh podcast need to know is what uh you and i like to 383 00:38:26,330 --> 00:38:31,460 call hidden history that is go back to some of the cases that have received a lot of attention 384 00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:35,859 until the soil a little bit kick it around knock some of the rocks over see if anything's 385 00:38:35,859 --> 00:38:41,780 under them find out if the story has become calcified with the years with factual inaccuracies 386 00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:46,920 or whether it does actually stand up so i've done that with betty and barney because frankly 387 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:54,030 um i've been trying to sell their story as a limited series in television um so i did 388 00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:59,849 a lot of digging and what i came to realize is there's a person's name i want to introduce 389 00:38:59,849 --> 00:39:04,069 the audience to that they don't hear about they've all heard about betty and barney and 390 00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:10,099 they most people think that the the betty barney case became famous because a book the 391 00:39:10,099 --> 00:39:15,560 interrupted journey was written in 1966 by a man named john fuller and then it became 392 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:22,160 uh movie of the week in 1975. that's not the name i want people to remember i want people 393 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:29,230 to remember john letrell senior he is the investigative reporter for the boston traveler 394 00:39:29,230 --> 00:39:36,250 newspaper who broke the betty and barney story an entire year before that book ever came 395 00:39:36,250 --> 00:39:40,420 out he wrote a five part series about it and he did it the old-fashioned way just like 396 00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:46,400 you do it uh ross he started making phone calls he tracked things down he went to witnesses 397 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:52,200 he cross-referenced things he found reports he got people to trust him to give him information 398 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,250 and john latrell has been sort of slandered over the years because no one has given him 399 00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:03,190 any credit for it they've all acted like it started with that book but it didn't and what's 400 00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:08,609 happened over the years is two i would call them misrepresentations i don't want to call 401 00:40:08,609 --> 00:40:13,020 them lies or just misrepresentations have occurred people have said betty and barney 402 00:40:13,020 --> 00:40:19,000 were not public with their story and then the story was leaked by the boston traveler 403 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:25,500 it's on a sign in new hampshire by the roadside okay that's how official it has been they're 404 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:31,099 both wrong betty and barney were actually fairly public uh given the givens with their 405 00:40:31,099 --> 00:40:38,150 story prior to it which is why john latrell senior found the story and uh and and beyond 406 00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:49,640 that um they that they literally gave him the opportunity to find it and he reported 407 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:55,700 it he didn't leak it as you well know newspapers and and the journalistic efforts don't leak 408 00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,930 information information has leaked to them and they report it so that sign is out there 409 00:41:00,930 --> 00:41:06,040 here's the part that just makes me smile because it shows sometimes you win one i had written 410 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,790 this article about it that's in the medium publication and i sent it to the people in 411 00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:15,160 new hampshire who'd run the road sign and said i think you've got a mistake or two on 412 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,890 your road sign and and i think you should fix it and i just got an email this week from 413 00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:25,610 the uh new hampshire road people saying we agree with you the sign is inaccurate and 414 00:41:25,610 --> 00:41:32,080 we're going to take that one down and put a new one up so fantastic who said journalism 415 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,990 doesn't achieve results goodness me that's a yeah that's a great one it makes me smile 416 00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:42,020 uh and and but but more than that i think the reason it's a good story for us it's it's 417 00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:46,960 a story about a guy who just said look this seems like an impossible story but i'm going 418 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,200 to reserve judgment on it until i've gotten some of the facts so that's exactly what he 419 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:59,140 did which takes us back to this is an abduction case i don't think we want need to know to 420 00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:05,420 turn into any kind of public forum on just abductions because they are the things hardest 421 00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:13,210 to prove right um but you can't ignore them lots of people report them so i think we have 422 00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:17,950 to apply journalistic standards to them just like we would anything else but the message 423 00:42:17,950 --> 00:42:24,190 i take away from your betty and danny hill story is that ultimately good journalism good 424 00:42:24,190 --> 00:42:33,010 plotting footwork by a journal uncovered something that has intrigued for the past 60 years yeah 425 00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:39,590 and what i think is so incredible is um just two months ago i guess september 21st was 426 00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:44,730 the 60th anniversary so this is a story that has stood the test of time but what i've noticed 427 00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:51,030 over the years because i've watched you know all the reporting on some of the the cable 428 00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:56,730 channels etc and some of the shows is people keep repeating the same facts to each other 429 00:42:56,730 --> 00:43:01,599 and then they get amplified and locked in and that was happening with their case which 430 00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:06,790 is why i did a deep dive and just said if i'm going to write about these people i think 431 00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:11,490 they deserve my best efforts trying to figure out what really happened to them it's a bit 432 00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:16,440 like with the westall case here in australia there was a rumor that i won't repeat on the 433 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,829 podcast but there was a rumor about about one particular witness that had never gone 434 00:43:20,829 --> 00:43:27,670 away and it was being circulated amongst different research groups here in australia and um it 435 00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:33,890 was a conspiracy rumor you know it it amplified the the story greatly this was an incident 436 00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:40,109 that took place at a school in april 1966 involving hundreds of kids allegedly seeing 437 00:43:40,109 --> 00:43:46,290 flying saucers hovering overseas overhead three lenticular metallic discs and there 438 00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:51,090 were a number of kids that went into the bush adjacent to school a forest adjacent to the 439 00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:57,180 school called the grange and there was a rumor that wouldn't go away about one of those children 440 00:43:57,180 --> 00:44:01,800 being taken away to hospital and all sorts of sinister things having happened to her 441 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:08,980 and her family and not to detract from the significance of the story i was able to put 442 00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:15,790 that rumor to rest in a recent interview with the woman and uh it was great because what 443 00:44:15,790 --> 00:44:23,089 it did in fact was re-intensify public interest on the issue as i do hope the betty and barney 444 00:44:23,089 --> 00:44:29,210 hill stories that you've written will do so for 2022 let's have a think i mean i i'm going 445 00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:34,369 to make a russian before you go to your because that's good i just realized i want to at least 446 00:44:34,369 --> 00:44:39,240 put a bow on this thing one of the reasons the betty and barney case is so special is 447 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:44,220 they were the first people to go through hypnosis as i told you and those tapes are just freaking 448 00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:48,920 riveting and they weren't making you know if they were making it up they weren't making 449 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:55,140 it up because they'd watched an episode the night before this was these people are traumatized 450 00:44:55,140 --> 00:45:00,240 they are describing roughly the same events they're shocking they're powerful they're 451 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,150 emotional they're compelling and that is why they went into the history books and why we're 452 00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:11,800 still talking about them 60 years later and and that's why i would never discount the 453 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,040 abduction stories uh that i've just finished reading john mack's uh by the biography of 454 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:22,880 john mack the uh harvard professor who invested in you guess that it investigated abductions 455 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:29,550 and i really commend to anyone um ralph blumenthal's wonderful book on john mack because mack was 456 00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:35,880 vilified for investigating abductions phenomenon you know he was he was basically the harvard's 457 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:41,080 sort of old guard tried to throw him out and it was only for the efforts of a concerted 458 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,920 group of friends and associates including the attorney dan sheehan that he was able 459 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,650 to protect his tenure there so 460 00:45:49,650 --> 00:45:55,990 what did you come to believe about abductions do you think that they're authentic oh i look 461 00:45:55,990 --> 00:46:00,780 i don't know i don't know i genuinely don't know it's a mystery but but i'm not going 462 00:46:00,780 --> 00:46:07,100 to say those people are fabricators or liars what i keep on coming back to is data data 463 00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:14,050 i i keep on coming back to the fact that we now know from the leaked slides the leaked 464 00:46:14,050 --> 00:46:19,790 powerpoint slides that we used by the uap task force in a briefing to the under secretary 465 00:46:19,790 --> 00:46:25,270 of defense that there was a description given of a phenomenon in one slide that's become 466 00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:31,589 apocryphally known as slide nine a phenomenon that is capable of manipulating human perception 467 00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:36,470 and consciousness that that's the issue to me that that i still can't put a finger on 468 00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:43,030 what the abduction phenomenon is because it's impossible to define and understand but i'm 469 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:49,300 excited about 2022 because one of the issues that won't go away is the constant reference 470 00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:57,100 to recovered non-human technology louis lozando keeps on saying it even chris melons hinted 471 00:46:57,100 --> 00:47:03,280 at it eric davis the renowned astrophysicist has repeatedly asserted that there are recovered 472 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:11,930 craft vehicles so i'm going to make a prediction i'm going to predict that in 2022 especially 473 00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:18,140 since it's i think the anniversary is it of roswell the very famous crash listen as you 474 00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:24,270 well know media love a good anniversary hook for a story and if crash wreckage is out there 475 00:47:24,270 --> 00:47:30,900 being uh rumbled through by various journalism outfits the fact that it will be the 75th 476 00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:35,840 anniversary uh will be a big deal and there'll be a lot of reporting about it so the question 477 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:42,480 is will those reports simply be regurgitations of what we've heard before or will they try 478 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:49,520 to break new ground on the wreckage issue so add to that that you have a renowned stanford 479 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:55,339 professor gary nolan who's just recently gone public with the fact that he was retained 480 00:47:55,339 --> 00:48:01,140 and again you know this is the other thing bryce that just blows my stack the fact that 481 00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:07,020 you can have a professor of gary nolan's reputation high reputation i mean the guy is you know 482 00:48:07,020 --> 00:48:12,260 he's borderline nobel prize material for some of the work he's done and he has admitted 483 00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:17,910 publicly in a recent interview that he was retained by the central intelligence agency 484 00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:29,450 the cia to analyze people who had allegedly suffered effects from uaps and and concurrent 485 00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:35,030 with that research he's also been looking at what are called meta materials recovered 486 00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:42,180 metals ostensibly taken from crashed or or in some way incapacitated craft i mean it's 487 00:48:42,180 --> 00:48:47,050 mind-blowing 2022 could be a big year yeah let me just uh i know we're going to wrap 488 00:48:47,050 --> 00:48:54,100 up these predictions and get on shuffle on out here but let me just ask you this if crash 489 00:48:54,100 --> 00:49:03,580 wreckage is a big journalism piece of 2022 and anybody actually comes up with a crash 490 00:49:03,580 --> 00:49:08,599 wreckage piece that has authenticity isn't that game over i mean doesn't that just usher 491 00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:15,349 in the floodgates of all kinds of things if you actually get a journalistic interest in 492 00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:21,299 crash wreckage well look i've always said i won't believe anything about retrieved spacecraft 493 00:49:21,299 --> 00:49:27,160 alien spacecraft until i can literally kick the tires in the cave and in area 51 it's 494 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:32,880 such a mind-blowing allegation but i have spoken i mean i interviewed nat covets from 495 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,059 the navy the former head of science technology development who told me that he was briefed 496 00:49:38,059 --> 00:49:47,790 into a program of retrieved alien spacecraft now we have in the face of that a categorical 497 00:49:47,790 --> 00:49:56,369 denial from the president of the united states obama's science advisor in 2011. so are we 498 00:49:56,369 --> 00:50:03,109 going to get an answer in 2022 i think we may get the results of the meta materials 499 00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:11,250 analysis we may learn something about retrieve material from alleged non-human craft which 500 00:50:11,250 --> 00:50:17,550 is stunning i agree with you i think uh we can leave uh leave you folks thinking about 501 00:50:17,550 --> 00:50:24,020 that i i would just ask us why don't we um as long as we're making predictions for 2022 502 00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:29,630 let's go out on just a little bit about what we hope to achieve here with need to know 503 00:50:29,630 --> 00:50:36,290 in 2022 for myself i'm kind of looking at this as a place where you know as we work 504 00:50:36,290 --> 00:50:40,430 our way through here and there's more time for us to talk and things to collaborate on 505 00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:46,130 that that there's a sense that we're at the forefront of pushing these boundaries because 506 00:50:46,130 --> 00:50:52,810 i think both of us uh feel like i wanna know i i don't want i don't want this life to end 507 00:50:52,810 --> 00:50:58,240 without knowing a little bit more than i know now and we want to help people achieve that 508 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:04,160 so that's where i'm coming from from myself here in australia in the land down under i 509 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:10,500 bid you a jew and from bryce zabel in los angeles california i'm sure he does the same 510 00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:15,680 merry christmas and impending happy new year from need to know happy new year